Chris Riback: Barbara, welcome to the studio. Thanks for coming by.

Barbara Willer: Thank you. It’s great to see the studio in the midst of the conference center.

Chris Riback: And it’s great to be at the conference. How is it going so far? Congratulations.

Barbara Willer: Thank you. It’s a wonderful event. This is one of our largest events in years and the excitement is palpable. It looks like it’s working out to be a great meeting and I’m thrilled to be here.

Chris Riback: Let’s dive into NAEYC and the position statements. What are they, and why do they matter?

Barbara Willer: Position statements are a way that NAEYC, as an organization, takes stands on issues that can be controversial, but brings together lots of different experts who are knowledgeable about different perspectives, may not always agree on an issue, but to come together and to reach consensus about an important issue affecting early childhood education. Position statements really guide everything else that we do.

Barbara Willer: Right now we’ve just adopted a position on advancing equity in early childhood education.

Chris Riback: Yes.

Barbara Willer: You see that throughout this conference, but we’re really committed to making that permeate every aspect of our work. We’re also working on a new revision of our developmentally-appropriate practice position statement, which is probably the flagship position for the association. That’s another important aspect, is making sure that the position statements are regularly revised so that they can reflect current research and current practice.

Chris Riback: And updated. I want to ask you about both of those positions in both of those areas, the inequity and the developmentally appropriate. First, quick follow-up on the hashing it out. You and I both know how those things can happen sometimes.

Barbara Willer: Right.

Chris Riback: Particularly when you’re looking for consensus. On the one hand they can be contentious, on the other hand sometimes those types of things can get watered down. Do the positions, given the role of NAEYC, how do you balance accommodating a wide range of views with the fact that you got to stand for something?

Barbara Willer: Exactly. That is the balance, and in some ways I think that’s also a balance that early childhood educators and program administrators often need to do. Certainly in policy, wouldn’t that be great if we could find that balance and be willing to bring diverse perspectives together to listen and to take into account what is there that I can say yes, I can support that. It may not be my favorite point of view, but I can support it, and then move forward.

Chris Riback: Well, let me tell you, if you can pull that off, I think there may be a role for you in congress.

Barbara Willer: Yes.

Chris Riback: At the very least you can write a book on that.

Barbara Willer: Well, I would love it if policy makers would take our position statement on advancing equity and use some of those principles. I think they might find them very useful.

Chris Riback: I’m sure that you would. I’m not going to touch that, by the way. Let’s talk about advancing equity and let’s talk about equity in particular. What is it? How does one know it when one sees it?

Barbara Willer: One of the definitions that we really rely on in equity is that there are no differences in opportunity and achievement on the basis of physical characteristics or other dimensions that really have no meaning in terms of determining opportunity, or should have no meaning.

Chris Riback: What one looks like, where one comes from, what one’s physical ability are, what one’s-

Barbara Willer: The language one speaks.

Chris Riback: Language, yes.

Barbara Willer: That these are things that should not be determinants, and yet they are because of a history, in this country in particular, of privilege that have been afforded to some and not others. That’s had lasting consequences that has really resulted in inequitable learning opportunities.

Chris Riback: I want to ask you about another positioning statement and the one that you said was being worked on, that you are revising. The NAEYC position statement on developmentally-appropriate practice, 2020. You’re making revisions. Where are you now, where are you going to, why are revisions needed?

Barbara Willer: This is the foundational document for the early childhood profession that really sets a framework for what our expectations for practice by professionals. It was first adopted in the mid-1980s, shortly after we began our accreditation system for early childhood programs. One of the reasons the position statement was adopted was that as we began accrediting early learning programs, the criteria that were used frequently referenced developmentally-appropriate practice. As we started making site visits, we quickly learned that there were many different interpretations of what that meant or what that looked like.

Chris Riback: Probably both parts, probably developmentally and appropriate.

Barbara Willer: Right, exactly. So we really needed to come to consensus to spell that out. So it’s been a really important statement, but frankly, it’s also had many concerns that it was too focused on normative views of development that primarily reflected the dominant culture of white, English-speaking, middle class professionals who frankly have done most of the research in this area. So over time we have worked to try to make sure that … In 1996, when the statement was revised, we added important concepts about understanding the importance of the cultural context for children’s development.

Barbara Willer: What we say now about this latest revision that we expect the board to adopt in spring of 2020, is that in many ways the principles are exactly the same and yet profound changes needed. The profound change that’s needed is understanding what we need, how as educators and the broader community, to really focus on what are the strengths that each and every child brings to the learning process and how might my biases be affecting my ability to see and draw on those strengths in order to provide the best opportunity for joyful learning for each and every child.

Chris Riback: The so-called traditional definition of talent or capability is being rewritten. I guess just to close this out, it sort of proves that education is not static, doesn’t it?

Barbara Willer: Absolutely. These are lessons that children need to learn as citizens of a dynamic, changing world. Being able to get along with each other, have the skills for inquiry, observation, and working together, those are skills that are laid in the foundation of early childhood and will serve people well throughout their lives.

Chris Riback: I was going to say, lessons for children, perhaps also lessons for adults.

Barbara Willer: Very much so.

Chris Riback: Barbara, thank you. Thank you for coming by the studio.

Barbara Willer: Thanks, it’s been great to talk to you.

Chris Riback: Carol, welcome to the studio.

Carol Brunson Day: Thank you Chris. I’m happy to be here.

Chris Riback: So many topics to talk with you about: cultural influences on development, anti-bias and equity work… But I want to start with a concept of yours that I came across, which is the idea understanding that “teaching is a creative art.” What a wonderful phrase. Why is teaching a creative art?

Carol Brunson Day: I say creative because there’s a lot of curriculum that teachers somehow are led to believe that they should copy what they’ve seen other people do with the curriculum. And that’s not in my opinion, the kind of teaching we want for young children.

Chris Riback: We have curriculum, we have foundational skills, but what I’m hearing from you is every child, of course is different. Every situation is different and sure one relies on skills, teaching learning that we have, but you got to be able to improvise. You’ve got to be able to apply it appropriately to the specific situation.

Carol Brunson Day: Exactly. That’s your job as a teacher to do that. That’s what I want teachers to embrace. The fact that, that’s what teaching is. Teaching is not repeating or imitating what other people do. It is creating, it’s an act of creativity.

Chris Riback: But now the challenge or at least one of the challenges in researching for this conversation, I also came across a video of you from 2011, where you stated all children do not have equal access to high quality school-based experiences. At this 2019 NAEYC Conference. Equity is still a key issue. Have we made progress since your 2011 statement? If we have made progress, my bet is it’s not enough. Why haven’t we made enough?

Carol Brunson Day: Have we made progress? Yes. I like to believe that we are always making progress even though I may not know exactly where it is and what it is about. When we look at data that can document growth, I believe that we have seen growth, but we have not seen enough. So in certain communities, we’ve seen kids are doing better. Overall, we still have a long way to go because we want every child everywhere across time to benefit from the knowledge and resources we have to foster their full and complete development. And that we have not achieved.

Chris Riback: Perhaps related to that institutional class, race and cultural bias.

Carol Brunson Day: Yes.

Chris Riback:  A lot of different areas trying to make an impact on that. You mentioned health, the healthcare sector has tried to make an impact in that area. Other activists and areas of activism trying to make an impact in those areas. Is early childhood education a sector that should be making an impact? Should it be a leader in making an impact in those areas?

Carol Brunson Day: Early childhood education practitioners should be in leadership roles around social change in areas that impact families with young children and we NAEYC, the National Association for the Education of Young Children as an organization has just taken that position by virtue of their newly issued equity statement.

Chris Riback: Yes.

Carol Brunson Day: Now, NAEYC has a long history in providing resources for people in this area and fostering discussions in these areas and so forth. And looking at teacher preparation and encouraging that we help prepare early childhood education.

Chris Riback: You were president of NAEYC…

Carol Brunson Day: Yes, yes. And I’ve been a member for many, many, many, many years and, NAEYC has always done a variety of things, but now there’s a concrete tool that can be used. They’ve put themselves in a position to say, all right, we believe that across our field, across our profession that we have a very important role and that we can do things that will level the playing field, if you will. That will foster equity in the institutions in which children are and families are engaged. That means that early childhood educators, I’m not just responsible for what happens in their classroom or in their program. They’re responsible for playing a role in what happens in the communities where families live. In the institutions that they are engaged in and that they have a role to monitor in some ways, monitor the activities of those organizations to understand how those … The policies and practices of those organizations have an impact on their ability as early childhood educators to foster children’s complete development. The context in which children and families operate.

Chris Riback: Is that a responsibility to be an activist?

Carol Brunson Day: Absolutely, and this equity statement essentially is a proposition that that should happen, that we as early childhood educators are-

Chris Riback: It sets the bar.

Carol Brunson Day: Must embrace that role.

Chris Riback: Yes. One of the few things that my kids have come to believe me on is that apples don’t fall far from trees. Your mother was a teacher, kindergarten and first grade, I believe. Yes?

Carol Brunson Day: Yes.

Chris Riback: Did she want you to go into education?

Carol Brunson Day: My mother wanted me to do whatever I wanted to do and she supported that. That she was in education was very important when I began to choose a career, but because I had done so much in the classroom with her growing up, I helped her put up bulletin boards. I helped her correct children’s papers and so forth. I had decided I don’t want to be an educator, but once I really stumbled into a very high quality early childhood teacher preparation program at Erikson Institute in Chicago. I realized that I really did want to be an educator and my mother was very proud of that and I was very proud that I carry this tradition in my family. My mother’s mother was also a teacher, so I was a third generation educator and yes, I’m very proud of it.

Chris Riback: You clearly are. Did you understand her better once you went into the profession?

Carol Brunson Day: I probably through the years, begin to understand her way of embracing her role as a teacher. As I learned more about education and practice. My mother was one who believed in firsthand experiences for kids. Many, many years ago. And I knew that, but I didn’t recognize the impact that it had on them until I had contact with some of her students as they became adults. They would always call her and come by and visit. But once they were adults and had young children who were in school, they really recognized the impact of the experiences that they had had in first grade.

Carol Brunson Day: And they told many stories about how that impacted them. And I began to understand how forward thinking, if you will, my mother was in her practice. And through that, yes, I began to understand her more and really embrace the gift of her being my mother.

Chris Riback: Well, you are proud of all of that.

Carol Brunson Day: All of that.

Chris Riback: And I can only imagine the pride that she felt as well. Thank you. Thank you for what you’ve done. Thank you for coming by the studio.

Carol Brunson Day: You’re welcome. I’m happy to be here.